(Apesar desta carta ser dirigida ao Bruno Castro, é uma resposta a mim mesmo, uma satisfação que dou às pessoas que me escutam e àquelas que realmente acreditam na razão. O Bruno comentou meu último post neste blog, provavelmente chegando a ele pelo tópico Manifesto Nervosinho, na comunidade do orkut do Movimento Anti Design. Quando decidi ser sincero comigo, não estava brincando. Isso inclui não deixar que a ignorância seja louvada, quando puder impedí-lo. Deus está do lado da Verdade.)
Bruno,
Antes de qualquer coisa direi que estou muito triste com seus comentários, não porque você tentou me desmoralizar falando da “florzinha vetorial”, mas porquê agora vou ter de escrever muitas outras linhas respondendo a uma pessoa que não consegue discernir entre opinião e fato.
De fato existem três opiniões ao longo do texto. As identificarei e comentarei neste texto para comprovar que, ainda que sejam opiniões, não são opiniões a esmo, e que mesmo as minhas opiniões são emitidas após séria reflexão, ao contrário do que me pareceram as suas. (isso é uma opinião e você tem oportunidade para mudá-la, para isto basta apresentar argumentos razoáveis da próxima vez):
1 - 1.1A- O que me parece é que existe, pior que o fato de dançar conforme o mercado, a necessidade de ser legitimado por nomes de filósofos, teóricos, que eu não li, não posso corroborar pois estaria mentindo, e aposto meu mindinho esquerdo que ninguém que assinou esse manifesto, se é que alguém o assinou, já leu ao menos um livro de cada um desses nomes citados.
Não vou acreditar que os designers que redigiram o manifesto, ou que posteriormente o aderiram, leram todos os filósofos citados apenas porquê afirmaram. Eu não disse em momento algum que não poderiam, disse que duvido que o fizeram pois, caso o tivessem feito, caso algum tivesse lido Platão seriamente, não fariam as afirmações idiotas como
“Mal sabe ele que está em um molde filosófico pragmático, que opera somente em função de um mercado, que por sua vez possui um modelo econômico americano.”
A - Deste lado do ringue:
“Em "Eutidemo" de Platão, (a filkosofia) é o uso do saber em proveito do homem, o que implica em, 1º, posse de um conhecimento que seja o mais amplo e mais válido possível, e , 2º , o uso desse conhecimento em benefício do homem.” (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filosofia).
e do outro lado do ringue:
“Nas palavras de William James e Francis Schaeffer, o Pragmatismo aborda o conceito de que o sentido de tudo está na utilidade - ou efeito prático - que qualquer ato, objeto ou proposição possa ser capaz de gerar. Uma pessoa pragmática vive pela lógica de que as idéias e atos de qualquer pessoa somente são verdadeiros se servem à solução imediata de seus problemas. Nesse caso, toma-se a Verdade pelo o que é útil naquele momento exato, sem consequências.”
e ainda
O pragmatismo refuta a perspectiva de que o intelecto e os conceitos humanos podem, só por si, representar adequadamente a realidade. Dessa forma, opõe-se tanto às correntes formalistas como às correntes racionalistas da filosofia. Antes, defende que as teorias e o conhecimento só adquirem significado através da luta de organismos inteligentes com o seu meio. Não defende, no entanto, que seja verdade meramente aquilo que é prático ou útil ou o que nos ajude a sobreviver a curto prazo. Os pragmatistas argumentam que se deve considerar como verdadeiro aquilo que mais contribui para o bem estar da humanidade em geral, tomando como referência o mais longo prazo possível. (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatismo)
Assim, ao perceber que o pragmatismo “refuta a perspectiva de que o intelecto e os conceitos humanos podem, só por si, representar adequadamente a realidade” ao mesmo tempo em que os pragmatistas “argumentam que se deve considerar como verdadeiro aquilo que mais contribui para o bem estar da humanidade em geral, tomando como referência o mais longo prazo possível.” percebo uma contradição pois, como deveríamos considerar verdadeiro e tomar atitudes embasados na Verdade, sendo que nosso intelecto e nossos conceitos não dão conta nem de representar adequadamente a realidade?
Ou seja, não se sabe nem se Platão consideraria o pragmatismo como corrente filosófica e já criaram a expressão “molde filosófico pragmático”. (atenção, este é um momento para me criticar: eu posso estar errado pois eu não sou um estudioso de filosofia e, para escrever a afirmação que acabei de fazer tirei as definições do Wikipedia, completamente questionáveis, ou seja, estou falando sobre coisas que eu não sei nem me dei o trabalho de investigar profundamente)
B - “molde filosófico” é uma expressão que aparece no Google apenas no Manifesto Anti-Design. Felicito os autores pelo neologismo e pelo segundo lugar no Google, mas não queiram que eu leve a sério, filosoficamente, um conceito criado por vocês.
C- O que significa estar em um molde filosófico pragmático? Exista a possibilidade de viver e atuar em um molde filosófico?
D- O modelo econômico, capitalismo, não é norte-americano, como seu professor de história, provavelmente um comunista, te fez acreditar. Mas nisso não irei me alongar.
2 – (caso tenha esquecido, essa é apenas a segunda opinião que darei o trabalho de explanar e comentar)
1.1B- A necessidade de "pedir a benção" é pior que o Mercado.
Estou acostumado a escutar palavras soltas, nomes de teóricos, conversa fiada pretensiosa. Eu tenho problemas com teóricos que nunca li, como é o caso do K. Marx, do qual li o Manifesto Comunista quando tinha 15 anos, achei tudo lindo, mas depois fui ficando esperto e percebendo a mentira deslavada, mas depois disso tenho tomado muito cuidado com o que eu falo e me policio ao máximo para não apoiar idéias que nem sei quais são. Digo novamente, agora com outras palavras: essa mulecagem de citar nomes de teóricos só engana os desavisados, os inexperientes e os preguiçosos, que querem passar por sabidos mas não fazem idéia do que dizem saber.
(Deus castiga: fiquei rindo da sua escrita moroless e acabei escrevendo /pretenciosa/, com /c/. Ainda bem que o Word corrigiu. Ainda bem que existe o dicionário. Ainda bem que existem as ferramentas. Eu não precisava, mas admito que errei. Será que você irá admitir que só falou asneiras?)
3 - 4.2 - Se alguém propõe uma idéia, achar que ela é nova e interessante é problema dele pois, pra mim, os adjetivos "nova" e "interessante" para se falar de uma idéia me soam capengas, me lembram o Polishop, o Faustão...
Este trecho foi mesmo mal-escrito. Uso indevido de pronomes, confuso e etc. Devo esta explicação: o que os autores de uma idéia dizem sobre ela não a legitima; a qualidade de uma idéia não é verificada pelos adjetivos atribuídos pelos seus autores.
Voltando às suas palavras, você nem se deu o trabalho de interpretar o que escrevi: caso o tivesse feito perceberia que eu não considero Platão "antigo ou ultrapassado", na verdade eu fico me perguntando quem poderia, pleno de sua consciência, considerá-lo. Eu vou te ajudar: o que você quis dizer é que o fato de Platão não ser nosso contemporâneo não significa que as idéias dele sejam inválidas. Nisso nós concordamos.
A propósito do filme atual, “Matrix", que você afirmou ter imortalizado o mito da caverna, foi uma péssima piada, essa sim, ultrapassada. Se existisse na sua fala um mínimo de senso histórico você diria que a idéia do imortalizado Platão foi utilizada para a construção do roteiro do filme, entretenimento hollywoodiano. Se você entendesse de filosofia como o titio Olavo de Carvalho, você poderia afirmar que o Matrix deturpou o mito platônico, ao invés de imortalizá-lo. (pode escutar aqui, mais ou menos em 10 minutos de conversa:
http://ogargantadefogo.org/2007/11/26/setimo-bate-papo-com-olavo-lado-b/)
A cronologia não separa ninguém.
cronologia
do Gr. chróno(s), tempo + lógos, tratado
s. f.,
disciplina que estuda o tempo e as suas divisões e determina a ordem pela qual os acontecimentos se sucederam; lista ou livro onde estão registados acontecimentos pela ordem de sucessão no tempo, pelas datas.
Num certo momento você diz " essas sitações (sic) não tinham a intenção de dar peso ao manifesto, o anti design sugeri(sic) ". Isso significa que você é o anti-design? Não deveria ser /o anti-design sugere/? Você está querendo estudar psicologia e filosofia, ciências bastante complexas, mas comete erros primários na escrita da sua língua pátria.
Se possível, envie por favor o link do PDF “A crise do mito no Design” . Não sei mesmo se terei ânimo de ler o PDF pois qualquer coisa que tente elucidar minhas idéias sobre o que é design, arte e consumismo em apenas 58 páginas é, no mínimo, duvidoso. Se for parecido com as suas idéias, vou vomitar antes do fim.
Outras palavras que você escreveu:
“tenho muito bem definido para mim oq é anti-design, mas se vc quer uma definição
aqui vai uma bem sintética e simplista:
"Anti-design corrente q questiona pontos ainda não abordados de forma ampla pelo design, com o intuito de melhoria do mesmo."
Sintético é diferente de simplista. Novamente serei bondoso e elucidarei, pra você e as pessoas que eventualmente lerem esta cartinha, o que você disse sem ter dimensão das próprias palavras:
simplista
adj. 2 gén.,
de lógica simples;
s. 2 gén.,
pessoa que tem o vício do simplismo.
simplismo
s. m.,
vício de raciocínio que consiste em desprezar elementos necessários da solução;
emprego de meios simples.
“Design descartável” é uma expressão interessante. Peço que elucide-a. Se eu puder ajudar, lembre-se que o design moderno surge no século XIX, “em função do desenvolvimento da novas tecnologias industriais”. (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_moderno )
Você não faz idéia de quem eu sou ou de quais os trabalhos realizei e fica cheio de gracinhas como:
“qto tempo uma campanha ou cartaz ou site seu dura??? (se é q vc já fez algo do tipo)....”
e
“Respeito sua opinião.... mas na minha opinião é linda essa sua florzinha vetorial, me lembra programa da ana maria braga, qdo mostra aqueles trabalhos”.
Se eu fosse uma criança correria assustada, mas sei que essa é dos truques de retórica mais banais e falhos do mundo: atacar seu oponente em questões que não dizem respeito à discussão, a fim de desmoralizá-lo. Se não me engano é um dos 38 estratagemas que Arthur Schopenhauer explicita em seu livro Como vencer um debate sem precisar ter razão. Um trecho: “E são as autoridades que o adversário não entende aquelas que, geralmente, mais efeito obtêm"
E, pra não falar mais em você, esta sua fala:
“Ha... estamos apenas expondo idéias, não recrutando pessoas... por isso, sinta-se avontade para não participar da comunidade se assim for sua vontade.....”
me parece entrar em contradição com
“Então, estamos literalmente na fase de recrutamento! Por isso o pequeno número de discussões aqui nesta comunidade. Contudo, seguem aí alguns links onde a discussão rolou ou está rolando aqui no orkut:”
fala do Ivan Alexander, dono dessa comunidade, respondendo ao César no tópico abaixo:
http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=40754948&tid=2566660303481077723
Mas contradições deste tipo perto do que temos visto por aí são brincadeira de criança.
Assim, encerro por agora esta cartinha, não sem antes comentar a fala de seus companheiros de causa:
Exidium, você pede que argumente minhas críticas mas não pediu o mesmo aos autores do Anti-Design, essa empulhação pseudo-intelectual que afirma serem os universitários “a elite intelectual brasileira”. Existe nessa afirmação uma completa deturpação da realidade. Leia O Mundo Codificado, do filósofo Vílem Flusser, organizado pelo Rafael Cardoso, e você entenderá, historicamente, a que vieram os universitários.
Gustavo, se alguns “excertos do manifesto” te “soaram um tanto denso”, preciso te avisar que você está se impressionando com pouco. Se você acha que eu sou incapaz de contribuir com a comunidade é porquê ignora que a crítica é uma forma de contribuição. Eu também gostaria de poder discutir design seriamente, mas duvido que sejam sérias as pessoas que escreveram e apóiam este manifesto. A impressão que me chega (novamente, uma opinião) é que as pessoas sentem a necessidade de se passar por sabichonas, por intelectuais, mas na verdade desprezam a Verdade. Não sei se estou certo, mas acredito que a falha seja não distinguir entre Essência e Aparência.
Vicente Pessôa
17 comentários:
Vicente! Eu li toda a treta no post do manifesto nervosinho, vc tem apoio. hahaha. Comentei algo lá, se eles tomassem vergonha seria bom.
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